Marklin vs Fleischmann

LARLAR Houston, TX
I need help deciding between Marklin and Fleschmann HO Scale German Steam Locomotives.  

The things important to me are:

1. DCC Sound on board from the factory ready to go with the most Steam Sounds

2. The most available Steam Locomotives with above need

3. Best quality smooth running with both 1 and 2 above.

Please advise.

Many thanks,

Lar



Comments

  • BR42BR42 Auburn
    Dear Lar,

    This is a difficult question to answer since both companies have their strengths.  I have several Fleischmann steam engines (18.6, 24, 38.10, 39, 50, 55, 65, 86, 89, and 94), and find their running characteristics excellent.  Also, Fleischmann uses the NMRA-DCC protocol, so that you can use DCC-system from a whole bunch of companies in case one goes belly up.  After having suffered for 20 years with the highly proprietary Trix Express system I shy away from tying myself down to one company.  So I would give Fleischmann a slight edge.

    Ulrich




  • Hi Larry



    Welcome to our forum !



    Your question is truly difficult to answer. First off, the main difference between Fleischmann and Maerklin is the track system. Fleischmann runs on 2-rail tracks, Maerklin on 3-rail tracks. The third track is comprised of small studs mounted the ties, right between the two outer actual tracks. The third track provides one electrical polarity, the outer tracks provide the other polarity. The appearance of these studs is unappealing to some. It does not bother me, never has.



    You cannot run a Fleischmann locomotive on Maerklin tracks and vice versa.



    Another difference lies in the track system. Using the Maerklin 3-rail track system, you can easily install a reverse loop. The 2-rail system does not allow this without jumping through some tedious electronic hoops which I am not familiar with. I use two reverse loops in remote corners. The turnouts are not even wired. The frogs are spring loaded and break easily, if you know what I mean.



    Another roadblock is the fact that you will hardly find a model railroader who uses both track systems simultaneously. My railroad is all based on the Maerklin system. I have no experience with any Fleischmann locomotives. Therefore I cannot render any judgment.



    I have several Maerklin steam engines that have factory installed decoders with sound. They all run nice and smooth, the amount of sound effects vary by model, depending on the year of manufacture and price.



    Currently, Maerklin appears to have a slightly larger selection of sound decoder equipped steam engines than Fleischmann. However, this is subject to unpredictable changes.



    Next, Maerklin does not produce any 2-rail locomotives. Fleischmann, Roco and Brawa, however, offer 3-rail locomotives. They refer to them as AC 3-rail. During the days of conventional model railroading, Maerklin engines ran on AC, all the 2-rail stuff from all other makers ran on DC.

    This is still true today if you use conventional power supplies, not digital.



    Furthermore, Fleischmann couplers are not compatible with Maerklin, Roco and Brawa couplers. The latter three all use the Maerklin loop style couplers, which are also compatible with the Roco Universal Coupler. Fleischmann does make Maerklin compatible couplers. Confusing, isn't it. Quite simply, couplers are not the real issue here. Any compatibilty problems can easily be resolved, provided you have rolling stock with NEM pockets. If you deal with older Maerklin stock, you cannot change couplers without major surgery.



    You see, it is now a matter of choosing between 3-rail or 2-rail systems. If you pick the 3-rail system you can choose locomotives from four different German makers. If you use the 2-rail system you can never run a Maerklin locomotive, no matter how much it appeals to you. That's all there is to it.



    As far as the Digital Command equipment is concerned, a current full-fledged Marklin system is expensive but it works very well and is easily managed. Most of the rest of this stuff from various makers works well, depending how much you are willing to spend. Ulrich can help you with these issues better than I can. My experise with digital support equipment is limited to Maerklin made items. I don't use anything else. I have no need to.



    Hopefully, this information will assist you making a choice. I do not give neither of the two an edge. I speak merely from pragmatic experience and knowledge.
  • Hello,

    I have to add something regarding "Marklin doesn't produce 2 rail", thats wrong, Trix is owned by Marklin for a few years now, you get all the Marklin locos sold under the brand Trix for 2 rail. 2 rail is the better choice, you got several track types to choose from, for 3 rail, just Marklin. Also, there are many more loco and rolling stock manufacturers for the 2 rail system. 3 rail is just outdated.

    Leif








  • One other small consideration:  If you want to have industrial or station trackage where the rails are set into concrete, this is fairly easy to do with two-rail DC, particularly on straight track.  All you need is stryene sheets against the outside rails, raised to the right level, as well as filler pieces between the tracks.  (Intermodal terminals often have at least some of the rails set into concrete to facilitate road traffic and the use of wheeled container loaders.)
     
    With three-rail track with studs on each tie, this would be very difficult to do and at best would look strange.
     
    -- Ernest
     
     
  • Dear Lar:

    I noticed you had another post saying you were interested in N-Scale.  Marklin does not produce N-Scale so you can't compare them to Marklin.

    Thanks

    Rey





  • Where does Piko fit in all this? Judging by the prices on their DC products,it should be a lot more popular than apparently it is. Why?  



  • Piko used to be manufactured in East Germany (the former German Democratic Republic).  It products were great by East Block standards, but their quality could not a match that of Fleischmann, Roco, Liliput and Trix.  Thus, it was not that popular.  After unification, it was purchased by a private owner, and has developed soon a reputation of quality and vision.  It produced several interesting locomotives (E60,82, E04, E 93, and so on) which were very much desired by modelers.  Also, its quality since then more than matches that of the big Western manufacturers.  However, it still does not have the name recognition of the others, but it is up there with them in all other aspects.

    Ulrich
  • THANK YOU!

    I think I will buy a Piko train and see what happens. Emoticons






  • Hello,

    The most recent Piko products are really great ! I own a DB V200 and it's just awesome, especially what you get for the price. I do not know how the starter set are, usually they include simplified loco's and cars.

    Leif




  • Marco PoloMarco Polo London
    Hi

    I am new to the forum and to the hobby.
    My questions re 3-rail vs 2-rail is twofold:
    1. Is 3-rail really outdated given the fact that Marklin is well known and successful company and other companies produce 3-rail compatible (AC) locos?
    2. I have heard that advantages of 3 rail Marklin system are as follows:
    2a. better reliability over 2 rail in that 2 rail systems (DC) rust more and require more regular cleaning
    2b. easy to create loops with 3-rail system
    2c. locos run better at slow speeds?

    CAn somebody confirm that?
    If I set up a large layout with 2-rail tracks (DC) do I really need to run trains every day or clean the layout every week - I mean like - derust/deoil it?
    Is it true with the slow speeds?
    With the loops is there an out-of-the-box solution for 2-rail systems?

    many thanks for help
    Marco


  • el Gato Gordoel Gato Gordo Colorado Spring



    Lar - You have been getting excellent info on the differences between Marklin and Fleischmann.  I grew up with the Marklin trains (pre-digital, pre-sound), but now have N scale: mostly Fleischmann, some Trix, Piko, HobbyTrain & Kato.

    What Roger says about doing reverse loops with Marklin track is true, but I prefer the looks of Fleischmann and Peco track and some others whose brands I can't recall at the moment.

    As for Fleischmann sound, it is great.  But since the number of steam loks with sound is quite limited in N scale (more extensive in HO) I have not acquired a sound steam lok.  However the e-loks and diesels are everything I could wish.


    As for the Piko brand trains, I have an ET 442 from Piko, with sound, and it is a smooth running machine.  The quality is excellent and it came with lights in each car - something that other manufacturers want to sell to you later. 

    Cheers, and welcome to the Forum!

    Gordon

  • Hello Peter

    Welcome to our forum.

    The choice between 2-rail and 3-rail has been disputed for decades. Some of the disputes can be quite opinionated. In reality, it is your own choice after some research. I am a Maerklin guy.

    I like the simplicity and reliability of the C-Track system and the overall quality of their products. Some people opinionate that the 3-rail system is outdated. I do not agree. It is still highly alive and kicking. Myself, I am not so particular about what the tracks look like.
    C-track looks good to me and, most of all, it works very well.

    From an electrical point of view, the 3-rail system is more reliable as it provides better power transfer from track to motive stock. A relatively long pickup shoe picks up one polarity, both outer rails provide the other polarity. On a 2-rail system, power pick up is split between the two rails. There is no dispute or opinion about this fact.

    The frequency of required track cleaning does not depend on which system you are using. It depends on environmental conditions and the amount of time you run the trains. 2-rail tracks do not rust more than 3 rail tracks. It is a matter of what material the tracks are made of. Maerklin tracks are made of a Nickel Silver alloy. I never had any of them rust on me. Most 2-rail tracks are also made of metal that does not rust.

    The locomotive's ability to run at very slow speed does not depend on which track system you are using. Instead, it depends on the quality of the motor and the drive system of a given locomotive, regardless of the make and chosen track system. Each brand offers locomotives in a wide price range, therefore with varying features.

    Since the reverse loop installation imposes no problem for me, I never conducted any research about 'out of the box' solutions for the 2-rail system, but I do know of a web site that deals with this issue.
    Check out www.azatrax.com

    You should scan through the articles in our Blog System. There you will find a plethora of helpful information.

    Feel free to post more questions. We'll do our best to provide the answers.

    Roger


  • el Gato Gordoel Gato Gordo Colorado Spring



    Marco -

    In answer to your question about cleaning: my two-rail N scale layout is in a very dusty barn-cum-woodshop.  During May and June, when the Miller Moths migrate I have to cover my layout and wait it out until late July - the moths leave about 1/2" of wing dust on everything.  EVERYTHING! The shop gets a good cleaning before I uncover the trains for the season.  Throughout the year I have periodic bouts of woodworking projects, from cabinetry to carpentry, raising fine sawdust.  At any rate, the whole situation is enough to give model railroaders nightmares.

    I don't really have to clean very often.  Once I open back up after moth season, I run a CMX track cleaning car over everything, using 99% rubbing alcohol in the tank.  Then I clean the wheels of the loks and cars.  After that, every month or two I run the CMX around the layout, and only clean the loks when they show signs of inconsistent running.

    The worst thing I ever had happen was having a mouse build her nest on my layout while we were away on vacation last year.  Not only did she use my trees and foliage to make her nest, but she peed on the tracks, and when I tried to evict her, she thought tunnels were perfect mouse holes.  She is now among the dearly departed.  Took me a month of scrubbing to get the track back to reliable.  Now the barn is laced with rat poison.  Regularly.

    I do keep the trains covered with a painters' lightweight drop cloth when not in actual use, but I seriously doubt that your situation is as severe as mine.  I would be surprised if anyone needs to clean their track on a weekly basis.

    Cheers,

    Gordo


  • RailwriterRailwriter Durham, NC
    While not disagreeing with what others have posted above, I would also strongly urge you to include another factior in your decisision as to which system to use:  What area and period are you trying to model -- and who makes the best selection of equipment for what you want?  That "who" will not necessarily focus on a single manufacturer.

     


    While modeling most periods of Germany, for example, you will find a good array of equipment from both two-rail and three-rail providers.  But, the same may not be true, if for example, you choose to model Italy, Hungary, or one of the Scandinavian countries.


     


    I certainly won't argue that one system is better or worse than the other.  I started with two-rail DC HO many years ago and have stuck with that system.  I know others who have started with three-rail and AC and been happy with that system.  (When I first started out, N scale equipment was not nearly as widely avaiable and as reliable as it is today.  If I were starting out today, I would consider N because it allows you to do more in a smaller space.)


     


    The original title of this thread posed a choice between Fleischmann and Marklin.  There are many other providers of two-rail DC track and equipment.  And, within two-rail DC, you can combine the track from multiple manufacturers to suit your needs.  Though my own collection leans heavily toward Roco, I have rolling stock from at least five other manufacturers.  And on my planned layout, I plan to use several different types of track -- simply because I have some of it and can use it without a huge investment in new additional track.


     


    -- Ernest


     
  • el Gato Gordoel Gato Gordo Colorado Spring



    Marklin or Fleischmann?  Three rail or two rail?  Go with what makes you happy - both are good!  And stay in touch - we all like to share and see what's happening on the other guy's table.

    Cheers!

    Gordon

  • Hey Marco,

    I only know old Marklin M track and old, very old, Fleischman track rusting. I'm talking like 60's and 70's. Recent tracks are all rust free, in fact the DC track is easier to clean, since they got the prototypical shape of the rail, which is slightly round on top. Marklin K track is flat and notorious for collecting dirt like a magnet. The C Track from Marklin is good though, but very limited system ( No Flex track ).
    Marklin locos tend to jerk at the start, that is because of the "shoe" they are dragging underneath. DC Locos, especially Roco and Brawa are starting to move just like the prototype, no jerk, very smooth.
    Slow switching is much better in DC, although Marklin really get there stuff together recently, much better.
    Marklin is very well known, as Fleschmann is, but none of the two are the top of the line in Model railroading anymore.

    Conclusion: You really cannot say Marklin or all others anymore, this just applies to the track system. Marklin, studs in center and tricky turnout designs. The rest of the would, prototypical track, a lot of variations and different quality levels from manufacturer to manufacturer.
    All "DC" manufacturers offer "AC" locos for the Marklin track, while Marklin ( as Trix ) offer locos for the "DC" world.

    So whichever track you choose, you got a lot different locos to choose from.

    If I would be a beginner, I would wait until the "Piko smart control starter sets" are out later this year. Check them out:

    http://www.piko-shop.de/index.php?vw_type=301&vw_id=288&vw_name=detail

    Br

    Leif

  • el Gato Gordoel Gato Gordo Colorado Spring

    Leif - That is quite some system that Piko has! I particularly like the item#59114, with an ICE and an e-lok freight train, and two loops of track.  Both trains have sound, and the samples of the sound files can be heard on that site. If I were just starting out (and had room for HO) I would give these starter sets a serious look.

    Piko does appear to have a nice selection in steam, in HO, but they do not appear to be doing steam locomotives in these particular starter sets, which is what Lar was originally asking. 

    Thanks for the info!

    Gordon

    el Gato Gordo2015-04-23 06:15:31
  • BR42BR42 Auburn
    Hello:

    Both systems have their advantages and disadvantages.  One is the statement that Maerklin locos are better for picking up power.  I do not clean my 2-rail track very much, and do not have power problems.  Of course, since the two tracks in 3-rail are connected, it just doubles the number of wheel-based contact points.  It is this fact that gives 3-rail sometimes an edge, not the studs in the center.  While the pick-up shoe definitely ensures reasonable contact, there is a price to pay for that: Noises from the pick-up shoe running over the studs, and raised studs in switches.  Especially double slip switches with smaller angle can be a pain.

    Three rail makes return loops easy, but this can be as easily achieved in the 2-rail digital world.

    One of the main concerns I have about 3-rail is the fact that one is dependent on a single manufacturer for track supply (unless one wants to build 3-rail track oneself).  My father started modelling with Trix Express, and it was one of the most frustrating experiences in my modellers life to have to depend on Trix for almost everything.  Because of this experience, I would choose a 2-rail system.  Matching track is produced by Fleischmann, Piko, Peco, Tillig, Trix, Shinora, Atlas, and several other US-manufacturers.  The chances that all off them go out of business is almost nil.  On the other hand, Marklin almost went under a few years ago.  I may be a little paranoid, but after modelling Trix Express from 1957 - 2002, and being told in 1993 by Trix "We stop producing track and equipment" was not a great experience.

    Ulrich
  • Ulrich mentioned the noise caused by pickup shoes running over the center studs. I encountered this a few times and found it to be annoying. Sometimes this can be so bad you think an axle is off track.

    I got rid of the clacking noise by carefully bending the shoes at fault into the proper angle and shape. Now all my pickup shoes run very silent.
  • Maerklin's C track system is criticized for not featuring Flex Track.

    Well, C-track features an integrated road bed, therefore no flex track.

    Maerklin also has the K-track, no road bed. But there is the #2205 K Flex Track. This can be integrated into a C-track system by using 2 ea adapter tracks #24922. Yes, you need to come up with your own road bed which is no witch craft.

    If you need to integrate the flex track to an M-track layout, use 2 ea adapter tracks #24921.

    You see, the Maerklin track system is more flexible than what it is given credit for.

    Choo Choo2015-04-28 12:26:24
  • kriskris Jakarta . Indon
    Hello everybody .   

    I have followed the Maerklin vs Fleischmann discussion with interest . From a supply  point of view ( who makes the most locomotives )  is it better to invest in a 3 rail or 2 rail system ?      
    BR422015-09-19 16:09:38
  • Thought I would add my '2 cents' worth...

    It has been said here before but again Marklin seems to make some unique items that are not available anywhere else.  Although the 3 rail does not look perfect, It is very easy to set up and wire. When I take photos I am careful to not emphasize the center of the track.

    Although you can not run Marklin rolling stock on 2 rail, you can run any rolling stock on Marklin track.

    I am slowly moving in other directions from Marklin, but for my home layout I still choose to build a Marklin Digital C track layout.

    Mitch 
  • Mitch:

    While C-track is more tolerant with respect to running DC-wheels, there are still some differences between the required measurements for Marklin track, and NEM-track.  The inner distance between wheels for the Marklin is 14mm.  If  we contrast this with a standard DC-wheel set, we have a wider distant of 14.3mm.  The .3mm difference to the Marklin wheels can cause serious problems in switches.  Especially double-slip switches are the most sensitive here.  In addition, the wheel surfaces are shaped differently, but this is not a real problem on C-track. The wheel distance can easily be corrected on cars, but with locos it may be a serious problem.

    Ulrich












    BR422015-09-19 18:58:54
  • ...and that is why I only value my advice as 2 cents...

    Thank you, Mitch
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