Running Jagerndorfer on a Marklin Mobile Station 2

I bought a Jagerndorfer 4020 with a 21 pin DCC decoder. I had a heck of a time getting it to work on my layout. Then an interference happened and I lost all my locos. I got them all back from the loco list but the Loco List except the Jagerndofer, which did not save. I have tried all the instructions and still this train does not move. Does anyone have anything to offer that helps me with what I need to do? This one really has me stumped.

Comments

  • RailwriterRailwriter Durham, NC

    Okay, this is difficult to diagnose without knowing details of your setup -- and I operate DC, not AC equipment.

    However some thoughts come to mind:

    • Not all decoders are created equal. Are you sure you installed a decoder that can handle the MM format? If so, is there a programming step you need to do to lock in the MM format?
    • Triebwagen with a cab control car may need more than one decoder. Does the cab control car require its own decoder, and if so, have you installed one?

    Just some thoughts.

    I have several Jägerndorfer items -- DC/DCC, or course -- and like them very much.

    My own 4020 is a Klein Modellbahn model. I have not yet converted it to digital, but have given some thought to that, including the need to have a decoder in the cab car.

    -- Ernest

  • pkherapkhera Juneau, AK

    Thank you for responding to my issue Ernest.
    I did not install the decoder. The decoder is a DCC installed at the factory. The Marklin Mobile station has settings for MM, DCC, and MFx. This is an HO, AC powered, Jagerndorfer 11922 4020.012 High End.
    I don't think the Triebwagen has a decoder. It only has lighting. All sounds and systems are from the locomotive. For now, I have taken everything off the track, including all the other cars, and the locomotive still won't move. I followed all the Marklin instructions and still no joy. Jagerndorfer provides no instructions anywhere.
    What can you make of this?
    Paul

  • BR42BR42 Auburn

    Paul:

    Do you have a programming track to check on the CVs? My suspicion is that the mobile station sends a non-Dcc signal to that decoder. Either the decoder needs to be told to respond this signal, are the Marklin command station needs to generate a DCC signal. Is this ability enabled in your station? I am not familiar with the Marklin equipment, but I know to do things in such a way that non-Marklin items are a pain. Not a good way to generate customer loyalty, but they have been doing this for more than 50 years, so old habits die slowly.

    Ulrich

  • RailwriterRailwriter Durham, NC

    Paul,

    I agree with Ulrich about the programming track. Try to see if you can read the CV values of the decoder.

    If you cannot read anything, then it suggests that you have an incorrectly installed or defective decoder. Have you opened the power car to see if the decoder is firmly seated in its socket? You also need to look for any possible loose wires within the power car.

    Also, decoders do go bad -- even brand new ones. Often you can see this by looking at the decoder. Are there any signs of heat damage, such as partly melted components or a partly melted plastic cover?

    Trouble-shooting is usually a process of elimination.

    Do you have an analog Märklin control? If so, hook that up to a short section of track and see if the power car will run in analog mode.

    I presume your control station has an overload/short circuit indication. Does that come on when the 4020 is on the tracks? That would show that something within this model is shorted out -- including, possibly, a defective decoder.

    Have you tried to contact the vendor from which you purchased this item -- presuming that you purchased it new? It should be under warranty, though having to send it back may be a fairly drastic step, if other things can be done to correct the problem.

    Regarding the control car: If the lights on the end change with direction of operation in digital mode, you need either

    • a function decoder to work the lights, or
    • a direct electrical connection to the locomotive or power car.

    But, to begin with, I would try all the trouble-shooting with only the power car. Then, if that works, then the possible problem may be in one of the other cars.

    -- Ernest

  • pkherapkhera Juneau, AK

    Hi Ulrich and Ernest,
    I tried all the things you said. I even placed the loco on the analog track and the light came on but nothing else. Since you had me playing around and you triggered some ideas, I went to Loco Protocols where I am set up for mfx, MM2, DCC and just for fun I tried MM2,DCC only. Now it works fine and everything is back as it should be. That brings vision to my next problem in that if I ever buy an MFx loco, I will have new problems. Until next time, the trains are running again!
    If you have other resources for help with Jagerndorfer models, please send them my way. While the model has nice features and detail, it comes with very little information and I have found none on the internet.
    Thanks again so much for your help!
    Paul

  • BR42BR42 Auburn

    Paul:

    Great I am glad that Ernest and I were able to help. The decoder may be confused by the MfX signal. You may be able to set the CVs to prevent this. Who made the decoder?

    Ulrich

  • pkherapkhera Juneau, AK

    That is a good question as to who made the decoder. This loco came with very little information. It says it is a 21 pin DCC decoder. That's it. What is a CV? What do CVs do? What does CV stand for? It would be nice to find a fix before an mfx finds its way to my layout.
    Thank you,
    Paul

  • RailwriterRailwriter Durham, NC
    edited November 8

    Paul,

    CVs are configuration values. These are the settings that tell a decoder what to do.

    To get full value from a digital system, you need to have some basic understanding of what the CVs do and how you can set them to other values -- and what those other value will make the decoder and its associated piece of motive power do. For example CV 1 is the address of the locomotive. Most modern decoders have up into the hundreds of CVs that can be set by the user.

    In many cases, you do not have to worry about setting CVs -- other than the locomotive address -- at least in the beginning. But, sooner or later, you will ask yourself the question, "Wouldn't it be nice, if my locomotive could do ....?" The answer may well lie in being able to set a particular CV.

    I assume your command station can read as well as write (program) values. This is also important. For example, CV 8 is a code designating the manufacturer of a decoder. Once you know that, you can usually find additional information about that decoder -- in some cases downloading a many pages-long manual from the manufacturer.

    Most of the common CVs are governed by international standards and are the same for all decoders. but, there are still attributes that are particular to one manufacturer or series of decoders.

    It is my understanding that mfx (also abbreviated as M4) is s simplified version of the Märklin Motorola (MM) format -- and that the two are basically compatible.

    I realize that digital model railroading can be somewhat daunting in the beginning, but it is really no more complex than understanding the basics of using a personal computer. You don't have to understand everything that is happening behind the scenes, but the more that you do, the more value you get from the device.

    I basically started out at ground zero with digital model railroading about a decade ago. I had had analog models most of my life, but saw clear advantages to digital operation, and learned various aspects one piece at a time. I am still not an expert in this field, but I at least understand what questions to ask -- and, in most cases, where to find the answers to those questions.

    You will need to do some reading on this. As you have chosen the Märklin system, does Märklin offer any books on its digital system -- other than whatever manual came with you command station? An important point about reading about any technical subject: Not everything will necessarily make sense the first time around. But, if you remember that there is a section about a particular topic in a particular book or manual, you can go back to that section later.

    Volume 1 of the Roco-Fleischmann introduction book on digital basics is now available in English. Volumes 2 and 3 are available in German and will presumably be available in English in the near future. Though these books focus on how Roco products fit into the digital model railroading world, there is enough general information that applies to products of all manufacturers that these books may still be worth a look for you.

    I looked at the description of you 4020 model in some recent Jägerndorfer catalogs -- I have PDF versions from most recent years -- and, for example, it shows that for digital models, you can switch the front lights from high to low beam. If the instructions did not tell you which function key operates this feature, you may have to play around with various function keys. (One of the first things I do with a new digital locomotive or after installing a decoder in a locomotive is to see what the various function keys do for this particular loco. Sometimes only a few function keys will do anything, at other times, you may find a dozen or more functions that can be operated remotely.)

    Often, even very sophisticated models come with very little documentation, and what documentation there is may not describe all the available features. With some experimentation, I found that some of my locos do have the high/low beam headlights.

    The Jägerndorfer catalogs also indicate that the way the lights is the cab control car are controlled is through current-conducting couplers. So, the cab control car is controlled by the power car.

    I hope that helps.

    -- Ernest

  • BR42BR42 Auburn

    Paul:

    I think your decoder is an ESU decoder. Programming a value of 8 into CV 8 should reset the decoder to its factory default which might take care of the decoders confusion. Of course it will wipe out all setting that were added by Jagerndorfer, so this is a "do it at your own risk operation". You cannot damage the decoder, but I am not familiar with the Jagerndorfer brand, so some info may be lost. Maybe Ernest knows more.

    Ulrich

  • RailwriterRailwriter Durham, NC

    I would NOT suggest trying to write anything to CV 8 -- yet. Just read the value there to see who made the decoder., so you can get more information on this decoder. Doing a total reset of a decoder to factory values is a fairly drastic step.

    (Most Jägerndorfer equipment is made in the Far East -- Japan or China -- though designed in Austria. So, the decoder could be from most any manufacturer.)

    If the 4020 and your other equipment are doing fine with the MM format, leave it at that.

    -- Ernest

  • RailwriterRailwriter Durham, NC

    @BR42 said:
    Paul:

    ... I am not familiar with the Jagerndorfer brand, so some info may be lost. Maybe Ernest knows more.

    Ulrich

    Jägerndorfer is a small Austrian brand that has been growing over the last decade. I believe the owner is/was related by marriage to the family that owned the Austrian Liliput brand. As mentioned above, the models are designed in Austria but then -- for cost reasons -- contracted to an Asian producer. This has, at times, led to delays in the delivery of some items as it has taken time to bring them by ship (intermodal container) half way around the world.

    But, the models are of extremely high quality and have a very good reputation.

    -- Ernest

  • BR42BR42 Auburn

    Ernest:

    Thanks. Do they also produce old, i.e. Era 3, Austrian locos and cars?

    Ulrich

  • RailwriterRailwriter Durham, NC

    @BR42 said:
    Ernest:

    Thanks. Do they also produce old, i.e. Era 3, Austrian locos and cars?

    Ulrich

    Yes. Reynauld's carries some Jägerndorfer items -- and can probably order items not in stock.

    You can download the current HO (or N -- for Gordon) catalogs here: jaegerndorfer.at/ The same page also has a link to another page with PDF catalogs from other recent years.

    They have era 2-3 electric boxcab and jackshaft switcher locos in HO, as well as a range of newly-announced passenger cars -- which are new for 2019 and may not be available yet. (I believe most of these are era 3.) Their flagship model for this year is an Austrian boxcab electric -- which also may not be available yet. This company typically produces only one or two new pieces of motive power -- though usually in multiple paint schemes and available with different operating numbers -- each year in each scale.

    At the same time, Jägerndorfer tends to keep existing models in their catalogs for many years, though sometimes offering new operating numbers of paint schemes.

    The Austrian magazine Modellbahnwelt, which I have mentioned before, usually reports on the availability of new items from Jägerndorfer -- and I have not seen mention of some of the 2019 new items. The next issue will appear at the beginning of December, meaning I will probably get my subscription copy around Dec. 10-15.

    Jägerndorfer also provides ski-lift ans ski-slope grooming equipment models in a variety of scales, including larger than HO.

    For N, the big news this year is an era 5 version of the Austrian 4010 trainsets in red. I have only seen photos, but they look nice -- and may be well worth a look for N-scale modelers.

    -- Ernest

  • pkherapkhera Juneau, AK

    Thank you so much for your help Ernest and Ulrich. I am really enjoying this discussion. Now I have another problem. The train was jammed up against a bridge and both tires flew off. How does one go about getting Jagerndorfer parts? They provide a parts list for wheel sets with or without tires, but not just tires? Do Marklin tires work on the Jagerndorfers?

  • BR42BR42 Auburn

    Paul:
    Roco produces a variety of tires sizes. Their DC tires are thinner than the AC tires. I think the Roco will work. I just do not know if Jagerndorfer used the thicker or thinner version. The fact that they came off so easily would suggest it is the thinner. Jagerndorfer has traction tires for the Taurus with the number JC RA 010.

    Ulrich

  • RailwriterRailwriter Durham, NC

    Good to hear that we have been able to help. I can confirm that Roco traction tires work on Jägerndorfer items. I replaced a traction tire on my Jägerndorfer 1163 with a Roco traction tire. One of the benefits of having a lot of rolling stock is that you also accumulate spare parts that can be used as needed. I now have about half a dozen different sizes of Roco traction tires --one of which fit the Jägerndorfer model.

    Don't ask me which one I used, as the wheels on your model may be different, AC wheels may also be different, and I no longer remember what I used. But I am reasonably sure that you can find a Roco size that will fit. Just measure the size of your wheels. As Ulrich noted above, if the existing tires were thin, then the Roco DC tires should work.

    -- Ernest

  • BR42BR42 Auburn

    Paul:

    Here is a link to Roco's traction tires:

    https://roco.cc/en/productsearch/0-0-0-0-0-0-0-002005-0/products.html

    Ulrich

  • pkherapkhera Juneau, AK

    Hi Ulrich and Ernest,
    Thank you for the good information. I was able to reinstall the tires onto my locomotive but it reminded me that I should have spare tires and a spare pick-up shoe, at the least. I have tires on order for my Roco 1116 Taurus and perhaps they will also fit the Jagerndorfer. If not, I will use the website you gave me. I do no for sure that the Marklin 7153 and 7154 tires will not fit.
    Thanks again! You are both awesome!
    Paul

  • BR42BR42 Auburn

    Paul:
    Marklin tires fit in diameter, but they are thicker. As a result, some wheels without tires may not touch the rail. This can result iin problems with picking up power. In a loco with two axled boogies, there is no problem if the traction tires are on the same axle. On the other hand, if they are on opposite wheels of both axles, then the other two wheels will have no electric contact.
    Ulrich

  • pkherapkhera Juneau, AK

    Good information to know. Thank you Ulrich!

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